quote:

Originally posted by mickeymantle:

quote:

Originally posted by Holy Moses:
scooby doo said above:

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SOME OF YOU PEOPLE JUST DON'T GET IT AND NEVER WILL---
THE GOV'T TAKES AWAY YOUR FREEDOMS IN VERY SMALL INCREMENTS...

Exactly what freedoms are you talking about? I tried very hard to think of a single freedom I have lost personally over the last 60 years, but could not think of any. Could you please help me out by listing some of the incremental freedoms you have had taken away from you personally. Is there anything you are no longer free to do today that you could do in the past? Am I missing something here? Are there some freedoms I have lost, but don't know I have lost them?

I think we have to carefully define what we mean by "freedom". Are we talking specifically about constitutional freedoms, or every day "freedoms". For example, many state governments have mandated the wearing of seat belts and has banned smoking in many public areas, on public transportation, etc. How about if I want MY freedom to NOT wear a seat belt, or I want to smoke. Isn't that my "freedom?"

So, has the government denied us our "freedom" in these two examples, or is Holy using "freedom" differently?

"Travis", exactly which constitutional freedoms are you suggesting are being tossed aside, and in what manner?

WHEN GOV'T ""FORCES"" YOU TO DO SOMETHING MIC, WHAT IS THAT CALLED???

EX: HEALTH CARE..WE ALL KNOW "IT WON'T BE FREE", RIGHT?? YOU WILL BE FORCED TO BUY INTO IT AND PAY TRIPLE TAXES...
WHAT ABOUT THE MEDIA?? DO THEY NOT CONTROL WHAT YOU AND I READ , HEAR, WATCH?? ARE THEY NOT TRYING TO STIFLE THE OPPOSING SIDE? (FOX)....WHAT WOULD YOU CALL THAT STEVE?? CUBA AND VENEZUELA LISTEN TO FORCED "BRAINWASHING"...ARE WE GOING TO SIT BACK AND TAKE IT, OR TRY TO STOP IT BEFORE IT HAPPENS?????

WHAT ABOUT RELIGIOUS HOLIDAYS?? CHRISTIANITY? SOMEONE OUT THERE PICKING ON US CHRISTIANS LATELY???...CAN I PUT A TREE OR MANGER ON MY LAWN OR PLACE OF BUSINESS WITHOUT ANY BACK LASH??
ON AND ON AND ON.......

quote:

WHEN GOV'T ""FORCES"" YOU TO DO SOMETHING MIC, WHAT IS THAT CALLED???

EX: HEALTH CARE..WE ALL KNOW "IT WON'T BE FREE", RIGHT?? YOU WILL BE FORCED TO BUY INTO IT AND PAY TRIPLE TAXES...
WHAT ABOUT THE MEDIA?? DO THEY NOT CONTROL WHAT YOU AND I READ , HEAR, WATCH?? ARE THEY NOT TRYING TO STIFLE THE OPPOSING SIDE? (FOX)....WHAT WOULD YOU CALL THAT STEVE?? CUBA AND VENEZUELA LISTEN TO FORCED "BRAINWASHING"...ARE WE GOING TO SIT BACK AND TAKE IT, OR TRY TO STOP IT BEFORE IT HAPPENS?????

WHAT ABOUT RELIGIOUS HOLIDAYS?? CHRISTIANITY? SOMEONE OUT THERE PICKING ON US CHRISTIANS LATELY???...CAN I PUT A TREE OR MANGER ON MY LAWN OR PLACE OF BUSINESS WITHOUT ANY BACK LASH??
ON AND ON AND ON.......

AMEN!!! YOU GO GIRL! THIS GUY IS LIVING IN LA LA LAND, AND SO ARE MOST AMERICANS WHO VOTED IN THE 'CHANGE' PRES. YEAH, CHANGE ALRIGHT, TO A MARXIST BANANA REPUBLIC.

Please leave Mick alone he just wants the freedom to forgive Hitler, and Stalin. It makes him feel better.

mickeymantle

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How about if I want MY freedom to NOT wear a seat belt, or I want to smoke. Isn't that my "freedom?" So, has the government denied us our "freedom" in these two examples, or is Holy using "freedom" differently?

To paraphrase Tevya from "Fiddler on the Roof," SEMANTICS! SEMANTICS! My question was directed to scooby doo, because I am honestly interested in what "activities" have been taken away from him which he feels, or believes, constitute a loss of freedom by his definition. You are answering my question to him with some questions of your own. Do you really believe the seatbelt requirement is a horrible loss of your freedom, or anyone else's for that matter? Have you personally suffered? As for me, I do not feel that wearing a seatbelt is a loss of any of my "freedoms." I am sure you are aware of the social contract theory by which agreement among the members of an organized society, or between the governed and the government define and limit the rights and duties of each under a rule of law. The idea of the social contract influenced the shapers of the American Revolution and the French Revolution and the constitutions that followed them. Existentially, you are free to do whatever you please. Don't wear a seatbelt, smoke wherever you like, don't stop at a stop sign or a red light, etc. You are even free to kill someone if you so desire. Just remember that the government may not be able to stop you, but they sure as hell can punish the crap out of you when you do. Even though one might have the right to do something, it might be prudent in some situations not to demand it.

quote:

Originally posted by HARPER:
Please leave Mick alone he just wants the freedom to forgive Hitler, and Stalin. It makes him feel better.

Harper, are you familiar with Christianity?

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Originally posted by mickeymantle:

quote:

Originally posted by HARPER:
Please leave Mick alone he just wants the freedom to forgive Hitler, and Stalin. It makes him feel better.

Harper, are you familiar with Christianity?

Too familiar.

quote:

ecause I am honestly interested in what "activities" have been taken away from him which he feels, or believes, constitute a loss of freedom by his definition.

LOOK, OPEN YOUR EYES...THE GOV'T IS ""SLOWLY"" TAKING AWAY YOUR FREEDOMS...

TAKE SMOKING FOR INSTANCE...- WHO'S CHARGING THESE ASTRONOMICAL TAXES ON THE CIGS? HMMM, IS IT THE GOV'T?? NO THEY CAN'T COME UP AND SAY "NO SMOKING"...BECAUSE PHILIP MORRIS WILL START A WAR...SO THEY TAX YOU SO YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT ....

TAKE THE GAS: DID THE GOV'T NOT RAISE THE PRICE THE GAS LAST YEAR TO ALMOST $5 A GALLON??
WAS SOME OF YOUR FREEDOMS TAKEN AWAY?? LIKE BEING UNABLE TO GO OUT TO DINNER ON THE WEEKEND, SEE A MOVIE?? DID THE GOV'T ""STRAP"" YOU LAST YEAR???? DID THE COST OF GROCERIEIS GO UP AT ALL???? GEE WHAT SHORT MEMORIES YOU HAVE
WHAT ABOUT THE REAL ESTATE???? HMMM????
ARE WE HOME OWNERS "STUCK"" NOW???? BECAUSE OF GOV'T CONTROLLED FANNIE AND FREDDIE???

OUR GOV'T WANTS YOU NEEDY...NOT DEPENDENT...WHEN ARE YOU ALL GOING TO GET IT??

SMART PRODUCTIVE PEOPLE CAN'T BE FOOLED..
THAT'S A NO NO....THEY WANT PEOPLE DEPENDENT ON WELFARE, AND OBAMA CARE--- WAKE UP

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TAKE THE GAS: DID THE GOV'T NOT RAISE THE PRICE THE GAS LAST YEAR TO ALMOST $5 A GALLON??

No, the oil companies did. That's capitalism for you.

LIKE BEING UNABLE TO GO OUT TO DINNER ON THE WEEKEND, SEE A MOVIE??
You still can, there's no law against it. Just thank the restaurant & movie industries for the high prices. That's capitalism for you.

DID THE COST OF GROCERIEIS GO UP AT ALL????

Thank the food industry for the high prices. That's capitalism for you.

Stop blaming what big business does on the government. Big business controls prices not the government. If the government stepped in to regulate the prices (as Nixon did) you'd be the first to cry socialism.

quote:

Originally posted by scooby doo:
WHEN GOV'T ""FORCES"" YOU TO DO SOMETHING MIC, WHAT IS THAT CALLED???

EX: HEALTH CARE..WE ALL KNOW "IT WON'T BE FREE", RIGHT?? YOU WILL BE FORCED TO BUY INTO IT AND PAY TRIPLE TAXES...
WHAT ABOUT THE MEDIA?? DO THEY NOT CONTROL WHAT YOU AND I READ , HEAR, WATCH?? ARE THEY NOT TRYING TO STIFLE THE OPPOSING SIDE? (FOX)....WHAT WOULD YOU CALL THAT STEVE?? CUBA AND VENEZUELA LISTEN TO FORCED "BRAINWASHING"...ARE WE GOING TO SIT BACK AND TAKE IT, OR TRY TO STOP IT BEFORE IT HAPPENS?????

WHAT ABOUT RELIGIOUS HOLIDAYS?? CHRISTIANITY? SOMEONE OUT THERE PICKING ON US CHRISTIANS LATELY???...CAN I PUT A TREE OR MANGER ON MY LAWN OR PLACE OF BUSINESS WITHOUT ANY BACK LASH??
ON AND ON AND ON.......

You seem like the caffeine has hit. You know nothing of American history and listen to people who twist things around to suit their agenda. A Read about the Alien and Sedition Act 1798 and educate yourself.

FOX portrays itself as the poor picked upon network and you fall for it. How much money do Hannity and O'Reilly and all the others make serving you up of conspiracy theories, threats, America is in trouble, we are being harassed crap? You are not a fool for listening to it, you are a fool for believing it at the exclusion of other viewpoints.

Fox is number one ans is only picking up more viewers each day. They are kicking obamas butt and he and you know it. If it werent for Fox we would never hear the truth and the punk obama would be unchecked.long live Fox..Beck is the best

I can't believe that you believe that Fox is always telling the truth.They all lie and leave out some part of what they are reporting.The American people dont have a clue as to what is the truth and what is a crock made up by the media.Sometimes the truth hurts and it wont sell newspapers or it's not what people want to here so it's sugar coated or ditorted to make someone say really?

Yous is looking over the fact, like our Constitution, Freedom is not absolute... You Liberals are crackpots...

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Originally posted by Denden:

quote:

TAKE THE GAS: DID THE GOV'T NOT RAISE THE PRICE THE GAS LAST YEAR TO ALMOST $5 A GALLON??

No, the oil companies did. That's capitalism for you.

THE GOV'T CONTROLS BANKING, AUTO ,AND SOON HEALTH CARE....LET'S SEE YOU BLAME CAPITALISM THEN

LIKE BEING UNABLE TO GO OUT TO DINNER ON THE WEEKEND, SEE A MOVIE??
You still can, there's no law against it. Just thank the restaurant & movie industries for the high prices. That's capitalism for you.


NO THERE ISN'T A LAW AGAINST IT...THERE'S NO LAW IN RUSSIA OR THE UKRAINE EITHER... THEY JUST CAN'T AFFORD IT..ALL THEIR MONEY GOES TO FREE HEALTH CARE.

DID THE COST OF GROCERIEIS GO UP AT ALL????


Thank the food industry for the high prices. That's capitalism for you.

YA , KEEP BLAIMING "KRAFT FOODS"...THAT'S OK, YOU'RE GONNA BE THANKING OBAMA WHEN YOU'RE DOLLAR IS WORTH 1 CENT...VERY SOON DENNIS...

Stop blaming what big business does on the government. Big business controls prices not the government. If the government stepped in to regulate the prices (as Nixon did) you'd be the first to cry socialism.

CAPITALISM IS WONDERFUL...DONT'LISTEN TO MIKE MOORE ..
IF YOU LOVE GOV'T CONTROL, WHY DON'T YOU MOVE TO EUROPE???? THEY HAVE ALL THE PROGRAMS YOU LOVE

quote:

Originally posted by scooby doo:

quote:

Originally posted by Denden:

quote:

TAKE THE GAS: DID THE GOV'T NOT RAISE THE PRICE THE GAS LAST YEAR TO ALMOST $5 A GALLON??

No, the oil companies did. That's capitalism for you.

THE GOV'T CONTROLS BANKING, AUTO ,AND SOON HEALTH CARE....LET'S SEE YOU BLAME CAPITALISM THEN

LIKE BEING UNABLE TO GO OUT TO DINNER ON THE WEEKEND, SEE A MOVIE??
You still can, there's no law against it. Just thank the restaurant & movie industries for the high prices. That's capitalism for you.


NO THERE ISN'T A LAW AGAINST IT...THERE'S NO LAW IN RUSSIA OR THE UKRAINE EITHER... THEY JUST CAN'T AFFORD IT..ALL THEIR MONEY GOES TO FREE HEALTH CARE.

DID THE COST OF GROCERIEIS GO UP AT ALL????


Thank the food industry for the high prices. That's capitalism for you.

YA , KEEP BLAIMING "KRAFT FOODS"...THAT'S OK, YOU'RE GONNA BE THANKING OBAMA WHEN YOU'RE DOLLAR IS WORTH 1 CENT...VERY SOON DENNIS...

Stop blaming what big business does on the government. Big business controls prices not the government. If the government stepped in to regulate the prices (as Nixon did) you'd be the first to cry socialism.

CAPITALISM IS WONDERFUL...DONT'LISTEN TO MIKE MOORE ..
IF YOU LOVE GOV'T CONTROL, WHY DON'T YOU MOVE TO EUROPE???? THEY HAVE ALL THE PROGRAMS YOU LOVE

And right now they are more successful.

quote:

Originally posted by scooby doo:

quote:

Originally posted by Denden:

quote:

TAKE THE GAS: DID THE GOV'T NOT RAISE THE PRICE THE GAS LAST YEAR TO ALMOST $5 A GALLON??

No, the oil companies did. That's capitalism for you.

THE GOV'T CONTROLS BANKING, AUTO ,AND SOON HEALTH CARE....LET'S SEE YOU BLAME CAPITALISM THEN

LIKE BEING UNABLE TO GO OUT TO DINNER ON THE WEEKEND, SEE A MOVIE??
You still can, there's no law against it. Just thank the restaurant & movie industries for the high prices. That's capitalism for you.


NO THERE ISN'T A LAW AGAINST IT...THERE'S NO LAW IN RUSSIA OR THE UKRAINE EITHER... THEY JUST CAN'T AFFORD IT..ALL THEIR MONEY GOES TO FREE HEALTH CARE.

DID THE COST OF GROCERIEIS GO UP AT ALL????


Thank the food industry for the high prices. That's capitalism for you.

YA , KEEP BLAIMING "KRAFT FOODS"...THAT'S OK, YOU'RE GONNA BE THANKING OBAMA WHEN YOU'RE DOLLAR IS WORTH 1 CENT...VERY SOON DENNIS...

Stop blaming what big business does on the government. Big business controls prices not the government. If the government stepped in to regulate the prices (as Nixon did) you'd be the first to cry socialism.

CAPITALISM IS WONDERFUL...DONT'LISTEN TO MIKE MOORE ..
IF YOU LOVE GOV'T CONTROL, WHY DON'T YOU MOVE TO EUROPE???? THEY HAVE ALL THE PROGRAMS YOU LOVE

You're thoe one who's complaining about the prices set by big business, not me. So why don't you take your own advice instead of whining like a baby and crying "It's their fault" when you obviously have no idea of how capitalism works.

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You're thoe one who's complaining about the prices set by big business, not me. So why don't you take your own advice instead of whining like a baby and crying "It's their fault" when you obviously have no idea of how capitalism works.

I HAVE NO IDEA HOW CAPITALISM WORKS??I OWN A BUSINESS AND AM VERY WELL AWARE...
..THAT'S WHY I VOTED FOR MCCAIN...

WHO DID YOU VOTE FOR???

INAR, WHEN ARE YOU MOVING TO EUROPE??? WHY DID YOU WAIT SO LONG???? YA BIG PHONY

DENNIS, I'LL TELL YOU HOW CAPITALISM WORKS...
VERY SIMPLE....THE GOV'T NEVER INVENTED ANYTHING
..THEY NEVER INVENTED THE PHONE, THEY DIDN'T INVENT THE AUTOMOBILE, THEY DIDN'T INVENT GOOGLE, THEY DIDNT' INVENT MICROSOFT, OR IBM, OR THE CELL PHONE OR SUPER MARIO BROS...

WAKE UP...STOP LISTENING TO THAT CRAP YOU CALL NEWS

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I OWN A BUSINESS AND AM VERY WELL AWARE.

The explain why you blame the government for high prices.
The government did invent social security, the FCC, the SEC, the FDA.

Big Business never did anything for anybody unless they were forced.

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Originally posted by Denden:

quote:

I OWN A BUSINESS AND AM VERY WELL AWARE.

The explain why you blame the government for high prices.
The government did invent social security, the FCC, the SEC, the FDA.

Big Business never did anything for anybody unless they were forced.

BOY ARE YOU DENSEDENSE

WHY DON'T YOU MOVE TO N. KOREA???

I GUESS YOU WOULDN'T MIND WORKING FOR HALF YOUR PAY AT THE CURRENT JOB YOUR'E IN NOW???
SO GO IN AND TELL THAT TO YOUR BOSS RIGHT NOW

quote:

Originally posted by scooby doo:

quote:

Originally posted by Denden:

quote:

I OWN A BUSINESS AND AM VERY WELL AWARE.

The explain why you blame the government for high prices.
The government did invent social security, the FCC, the SEC, the FDA.

Big Business never did anything for anybody unless they were forced.

BOY ARE YOU DENSEDENSE

WHY DON'T YOU MOVE TO N. KOREA???

I GUESS YOU WOULDN'T MIND WORKING FOR HALF YOUR PAY AT THE CURRENT JOB YOUR'E IN NOW???
SO GO IN AND TELL THAT TO YOUR BOSS RIGHT NOW

Your observations and pontifications amount to nothing more than abbreviated versions of Capitalism. You think that what you learned in the sixth grade is the totality of information and understanding. You know nothing more than what was printed in your coloring book "Capitalism Is Good!"