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Laura, I can tell you from personal experience that ignorant, frightened girls jumped down flights of stairs attempting to induce a miscarriage. I personally took a girl to a hospital in the 60's who was hemorraghing from an illegal scrape (it was not my baby). Will the illegal abortion racket again raise its head? I don't know but I do know abortions will continue.
Adoptions would be great, but its hard to put yourself in the position of a pregnant, 19 year old girl in college and tell her to have that child and put it up for adoption. Even now not all the babies put up for adoption find homes and I can tell you that the foster child system has horrors. This is not an area with easy answers. Frank, I am not suggesting selecting the lesser of two evils. That would be situational ethics and contrary to Jesuit training. |
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"Stooges Rule!" |
"Are you tryin' ta give me the doubletawk?"
Nucky, on the one hand, you say you are not in favor of abortions yourself, then, you say, "isn't it better than a baby going to a horrible foster home?" Convoluted logic, if you ask me. A lot of times, abortion is done because the daughters do not want to "shame" the family. Right there proves they know it's wrong...it's a cover up to make it appear as though nothing happened. A good friend of mine had a baby at 15, gave her up for adoption. My sister in law was RAPED became pregnant, had the baby, and gave it up to some Catholic Charities adoption agency...that takes real balls...I have always admired her, her reasoning was "well it's not the baby's fault, he/she is innocent and you can't take away an innocent life, no matter what the circumstances are". If SHE could do it, anyone can. You cannot justify abortion, Nucky, no matter how many practical reasons you can give. "Truth is stranger than fiction, Judgie Wudgie!!" ~ Jerome "Curly" Howard |
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| <herb-m>
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The conservative Republicans want to protect the fetus, but once they are born, they have no interest in providing health care for them.
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I agree, I wasn't implying that it's totally the womans fault. Obviously the man is at fault also and should assist with the birth control choice. In the Navy they had a saying, it was KYP IYP (Keep Your Pecker, In Your Pants) that way there are no problems.
"A special breed of man will sacrifice everything for the security and freedom of so many unthankful others" --Unknown Author "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." -- George Orwell |
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I have a split decision on this one. I agree with Frank that abortion should not be used as a method of birth control. But in the case of rape or incest thats another story. Another tough one is if it saves the lif of the mother.
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"Stooges Rule!" |
I used to have a problem with rape or incest situations, but after my sis in law had that baby from a rape, I just don't know.
Years ago, some talk show had on moms with children they had from a rape. They were asked if everytime they looked at their children, did it remind them of the rape? It was a difficult show, but all the moms said they couldn't abort the child that was created from a rape, because it's not the baby's fault. In the case of incest, wouldn't there be something horribly wrong with the baby if close family members had relations?? In that case... "Truth is stranger than fiction, Judgie Wudgie!!" ~ Jerome "Curly" Howard |
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| <CATHY13>
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AS FAR AS INCEST, I WAS JUST READING THAT A NEW STUDY AND PERCENTAGE WISE, BABIES BORN FROM INCEST DO NOT HAVE A MUCH HIGHER RISK FOR ANY BIRTH DEFECT..NOT MANY COUNTRIES BAN INCEST MARRIAGES...EUROPE AND AFRICA DID AWAY WITH THAT LAW LONG AGO...
THE U.S AND A FEW OTHER COUNTRIES ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT STILL BAN INCEST MARRIAGE.. THE PERCENTAGE WAS SOMETHING LIKE NON-INCEST-2 % INCEST- 6 % |
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Yeah, well, my sister's ugly anyway.......
"A special breed of man will sacrifice everything for the security and freedom of so many unthankful others" --Unknown Author "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." -- George Orwell |
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| <MikeyD>
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Herb..this is how it works...after my kids were born..I provided health care for them...I didn't look for the government to do it.
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| <herb-m>
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Doesn't your police health care plan include your family.
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It probably does, Herb, the same as my Federal Government Health Care Plan. The hitch here is that we pay for those plans. My Govt plan for me and my wife alone, not including vision and dental costs 120.00 every two weeks. I'm lucky it's that cheap. We get vision and dental through my wifes company and it costs her 60.00 a month for that. No big deal, it's part of the "cost of living" I don't really mind paying for. I mind paying somebody elses.
"A special breed of man will sacrifice everything for the security and freedom of so many unthankful others" --Unknown Author "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." -- George Orwell |
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| <karyn>
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Well, same as above. If a young girl is raped and impregnated by her father, is she the sister/mother? What do you tell the child? Her father/grandfather was a pedophile rapist? Again, I hate the very thought of abortion. I don't believe that I could ever live with myself if I ever made that decision, but I do have compassion for women and children that have been raped. I can not judge them for that, and would not like to see that option taken away from them. |
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| <herb-m>
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Frank I also have the Federal Government Health Plan. Yes we pay an amount, but the government pays about 60% of the cost ( I am not sure of the exact percentage). So you and I have subsidized health plans.
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I'm in favor of abortion up until there is evidence that the foetus has consciousness. Since we don't know when that is presently, let's assume that it's a month before the foetus becomes viable. Say five months. Whatever a foetus is before that time, I don't believe that it is a human being. (Let's not repeat all the arguments pro and con, I've heard them all.)
This is an issue that conscientious people have to agree to accept a partial victory on or our political masters will remain the stupendously wealthy. It's an issue on which the Republicans can claim to be pro-life, thereby garnering all the votes of the folks who make it a "litmus test" of their vote. Continued rule by the Republican servants of the stupendously wealthy will result in our pauperization as soon as the people holding our $7.8T in federal debt start using it to buy other currencies, like the Euro, or refuse to accept it in payment for oil. The only way of avoiding this eventuality is by exercising the military option of simply stealing the oil, which may be the long term intent of the neocons. Believe me, those that will only vote for pro-life candidates, when the U.S. experiences poverty greater than the Great Depression, the low number of abortions being performed today will be an impossible goal. The pro-life/pro-choice debate, besides the importance to those holding positions on either side, is being used by the stpendously wealthy as yet another invidious tool to stifle opposition. CORDIALLY, YOGI "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt |
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"Stooges Rule!" |
AHHHH, Yogi...what is it before it's born, a duck???????
It is human from the time it's conceived, sorry buddy, that's not opinion, it's fact. Even if it can't live or breathe on it's own, it IS going to become human, but it's too small and helpless to survive on its own. I don't buy that crap that it's not human until so many months.....uh uh. "Truth is stranger than fiction, Judgie Wudgie!!" ~ Jerome "Curly" Howard |
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| <herb-m>
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Laura, cetainly a fetus is not human. It has the potential for becoming human after it is born. I haven't heard of any movement to call a fetus on your income tax as a dependent child.
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| <CATHY13>
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CHE PICATA, MADONNA.......
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"Stooges Rule!" |
A fetus is not human? Of course it is, just not developed enough to live on its own. You abort it, it's murder, plain and simple.
"Truth is stranger than fiction, Judgie Wudgie!!" ~ Jerome "Curly" Howard |
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This is the same argument the Pro-choice crowd has used all along. This is how they soothe their guilt. If it's not human, it's not a murder. It all hinges on that description.
"A special breed of man will sacrifice everything for the security and freedom of so many unthankful others" --Unknown Author "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." -- George Orwell |
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BackInTheBronx.com BackInTheBronx.com Bulletin Board Forums Back In THE BRONX Forums General Interest Culture of Death...........
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